You know how it goes. I'm minding my own business trolling through movies on Netflix, when up pops this fantasy movie from 2011 that gets my attention, Dawn of the Dragon Slayer. I know from the title it's going to have a dragon in it, probably some medieval swordplay, a hero, and surely a damsel in distress. It's a recent production, so maybe it'll have some fun with the fantasy tropes for an hour and a half of entertainment.
I click on the link to see how it rates. Hmmm...
Okay, 3.4 stars out of 5 isn't a terrible average for so many reviews. Good tag line. Blurb is interesting. Artwork on the poster is awesome! Netflix doubts I will like it much, but let's give it a go...
Forty-five minutes later...
I can't take it anymore. My brain is numb. There isn't one new idea in this film. It's the same story I've seen again and again. Sheepherder's father is killed by dragon. Boy vows revenge. Boy has secret connection to important family. Boy trains to become a knight so he can kill the dragon. Boy falls in love with benefactor's daughter (the only one, of course, who believes in him). Boy makes an enemy of nobleman who is supposed to marry benefactor's daughter. Boy tries to kill dragon before he's ready and fails. Boy...well, I don't know what happened after that because I turned it off, but I'm sure the love between the boy and his lady only enhanced the power necessary to slay the dragon.
Rotten Tomatoes:
Amazon:
Then I see this on IMDb where it gets an overall rating of 3.7 out of 10:
And then I came to my senses. Yes, yes it is bad to settle for a cliche. Don't do it. Strive to do better. You want to make a movie about a dragon slayer? Great, I want to watch it. But can't he be something other than the poor orphan lad who lives in a thatch hut in the mountains tending sheep? Can't the love interest be the blacksmith's daughter who knows how to make a dragon-killer sword? Better yet, why isn't she the dragon slayer? Send the boy back to tend his sheep, and I'll get the popcorn.
Got any fantasy cliches you're tired of seeing?
artwork by Arthur Rackham
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Not snobbish at all! Sounds like others didn't like the cliches as well.
ReplyDeleteAnd NetFlix suggests the oddest films to me sometimes...
I loved that review on IMDB, I totally share the opinion. There are so many horrid people around the net who trash all possible movies which aren't overly dark or overly morbid, usually the preteen fans of Tarantino and Fincher and other such irresponsible directors. If you don't like some genre, why would you write a review about it and trash it, just stay away from it just like I stay away from superhero flicks and violent movies.
ReplyDeleteWho plays the boy in the film? I wanna watch it :)
The part of WILL SHEPHERD (for fecks sake) is played by Richard McWilliams. And, actually, I loved the dragon scenes in the movie when it was flying through the clouds. That part was cool. :))
DeleteI'm not going to comment on the fantasy cliches question, but I will comment on this: "Was I being a snobbish prat for thinking so poorly of this story?" No. You like what you like, and you want what you want out of a story, and if the movie you're watching (or the book you're reading) doesn't give you what you want, then you're more than entitled to not like it. That's not being snobbish at all. At the same time, there's nothing wrong with the people who liked it for whatever reason (even if it's hard to believe anyone could like it).
ReplyDeleteAlex - I'm not sure how Netflix knows so much about me, but they were right about this one.
ReplyDeleteDezzy - Yes, it's a very simple, happy little movie. If you'd never been exposed to a fantasy story before you might find it enjoyable. I think if I were eight or nine and watching it I would have loved it.
Jeff - See, I usually do feel bad for saying bad things about books or movies, because I know SOMEONE likes them. But I just can't understand going to the effort and expense of making a new movie and using the same old tired cliches that have been around forever.
Finally got to read the IMDB one - was tiny on my iPad. Yes, there are movies that people come down on way too hard. Some just are what they are. But if it was cliched and overdone and you didn't like it, don't feel bad for saying so. I'll say a movie is dumb - like Battleship - but if it was fun and watchable, I'll say that as well.
DeleteYou want a really bad fantasy? Watch anything by Ube Boll. I don't know why they keep giving him movies to direct.
And Tarantino ROCKS!
Oh, I did try to watch In the Name of the King!! It was oh so bad. I didn't finish it either. I try to hang in there and find something to hold onto as I watch these movies, but some are just so bad...the acting, the script, the plot. It's just leaves me shaking my head.
DeleteI don't watch a lot of fantasy so I haven't become worn down by those cliches, but I do get irritated with other types of cliches. Like this Silver Linings Playbook everyone is raving about. It seems like an original premise because both main characters have some type of mental illness, but it actually fulfills every Rom Com cliche out there even though it pretends at times to be a more serious film. But people love it, so I don't know---maybe we're strange in craving something fresh.
ReplyDeleteSee, I wonder if a lot of average readers/viewers are just accustomed to the cliche and really do expect it. Maybe we're wearing ourselves out trying to be original. :P
DeleteThe reason I don't like cliched movies and books is because they hold no surprises for me. I read books and watch movies for a number of reasons. To be mindlessly entertained, to learn something, to be enlightened, to be astounded, to be horrified, scared out of my wits, or laugh my butt off. The one thing I can't tolerate is to be bored and cliches are dull, dull, dull! I'm with you; give me something fresh, give me a twist or an unexpected turn, anything but the same old same old.
ReplyDeleteYou're not being snobbish if you didn't like the movie but you know that's just your opinion. If you were to dislike the movie and then claim that only stupid people could like such a movie, you would be being snobbish. If you were to assess the quality of the movie as if it were an objective truth and declare that it is simply a bad movie, you would be snobbish. Many reviewers do this. I suspect that was what this David Holt was ranting about.
ReplyDeleteI do think it is perhaps a bit snobbish to say that it is a bad thing to "settle for a cliche". Cliches are NOT bad things. They become cliches because they are popular, and just because certain people grow tired of them doesn't mean they should be eliminated from use. If a storyteller truly enjoys a certain cliche and his audience also enjoys how the storyteller uses it, there's nothing wrong with that.
You are the wrong audience for a cliche. But that doesn't mean there isn't an audience for a given cliche. (A glance around our media landscape shows how much people still love cliches.) I suspect most writers spend so much time thinking about story and trying to improve as storytellers that they simply can no longer be satisfied with the more accessible tools of storytelling, like cliches and tropes. They tend to need something more challenging. But the rest of the world, the ones who just want some entertainment, aren't as picky.
mshatch - It was textbook cliche dialogue and plot. No challenge on my part to pay attention whatsoever. That's when cliches are at their worst, when there isn't any effort made to make it original.
ReplyDeleteSarah - I think things become cliche when they become overused. And, yes, they become overused because they are popular. There will always be people who enjoy the cliched story. Still, I think the bigger reward is in being creative and original. The Hobbit is a classic dragon slayer story, but with a twist. The hero is a hairy, bigfooted Hobbit instead of a shepherd boy, and it works brilliantly. Doesn't take much to break free of the cliche. Maybe ten more minutes of brainstorming. Doesn't seem a lot to ask of storytellers.
We're new to Netflix, and my challenge is my hubby. He believes the blurbs and not the stars. I'm in the process of training him to look, but it may take a while. You ought to see the discount DVDs he comes home with. *rolls eyes*
ReplyDeleteAnd no, you're not a prat or snobbish. Old news is still old news. If you want to see the same old story, there are some great classics you could watch again.
Lu, is it possible the overwhelming smack of trope or cliche is in the rendering? What I mean to say is, can we swallow the same ingredients with unselfconscious relish, if they're prepared by a master?
ReplyDeleteI agree it is better not to settle for a cliche. At the same time, sometimes I want to watch a cheesy movie filled with cliches. That's one of my favorite things about horror movies, though. It's fun to see what cliches they'll use.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a kid, one of my teachers told us this story about how she started out teaching kindergarten. She didn't want to just have that same old clown theme in her room that you see everywhere, so she tried every year to come up with something new and exciting. The first few years were okay, but it started getting harder and harder to think of something original every year. That's when she realized that it didn't matter what was in her room, because, to the kids, even if she'd had the same clown thing in her room for 10 years, to the kids coming in every year, it -was- new and exciting.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think it's more than fine to grade something objectively, because there are objective qualities as to whether something is bad or good. But I'm sure you know that about how I feel about things. Hansel & Gretel was objectively bad, but I enjoyed it anyway.
Donna - I usually scroll through the comments to see what's dragging down a rating. Sometimes it's just the stupidest things, like they gave it two stars for not being available for download. So, yeah, sometimes you have to exercise a little judgement. And Netflix is often wrong about what I'll like. Sometimes I like quirky, weird movies.
ReplyDeleteSuze - Stories like mom used to make. Mmmm. Yeah, I can't say all cliches are bad. Fantasy ones tend to annoy me the most. But some other genres are still new to me, so I wouldn't necessarily be put off by them or even recognize them as cliche, like in horror or thrillers. So true.
Cherie - See, the thing about horror is I would find comfort in the cliche. I'd WANT to know what was coming so I could shut my eyes. LOL.
Andrew - I think that's one reason cliched stories find life. There's always a new audience of people that hasn't experienced the cliche yet, and so it's new to them. Kindergarten kids don't know clowns are a tired cliche. They just know they're creepy as hell on instinct. :P
Ok, it's odd but sometimes clichés work for me, and sometimes they don't. A little cliché and a little something new and clever mixed together often works best . . . it's why I can go see Avengers and movies like that regularly and have fun. However, if a movie is all clichés . . .well, I won't make it through it either.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of the lady blacksmith creating an amazing sword that slays the dragon. It might be fun if she rescued the fourth son of the King and then fell in love with his bodyguard or tutor instead of him.
Tyrean - I know exactly what you mean. I wanted to watch the movie knowing it was going to have certain classic fantasy elements in it. A hero, a dragon, swordfightin...but then to not make any effort to change it up from what's been done over and over... it just seemed like such a waste of effort.
DeleteOoh, and new story ideas are brewing. :)
B movies can surprise us sometimes, LG, that's how I saw 'Trancers' with Dack Deth. I dislike any system telling me what I'll like to read or watch, the AI won't take over my thinking.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was reading a lot of fantasy, my eyes started to glaze over at nice dragon who bonded with their masters, although I read her series. Sorry. Dragons look like nasty guys to me, not pets.
Cliches - the hero is always a good boy (with Hellboy that was debatable since he went after the bad guys, but had a snarky attitude. Bad family connections, though, with you-know-who.
That's Jack Deth. See link in wiki
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trancers
Hmm. The fantasy cliche that I'm tired of seeing is the old bumbling wizard with a staff and a pointed hat (think Gandalf) but so many people use this.
ReplyDeletePlus there's the whole white-washing of fantasy (only white people are heroes). I love to see minorities cast.
The barbarian with long hair that is as dumb as a rock.
The boy wizard (Harry Potter did it well so everyone else has got to try it now).
The girl with two hot men on the line.
Oh...and the protag who comes from noting but evil but with the right person's love, they can be good and overcome the evil legacy.
DG - Yeah, I'm not anit B-movie. Some of them are a lot of fun. And I can take a cliche or two. We all have them in our stories. But it's something else to pile one on top of another until the entire story is cobbled together with cliches. That's just lazy in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteMichael - Oh, yes. That's what this movie was missing, a wizard! And a dumb barbarian with long hair. No, wait, I think it did have one of those. :)
And isn't it true about fantasy? So often it's based on British folklore and everyone is white. I'm rather guilty of that one myself. I may need to do a little revision and see if I can't remedy that one. Seriously, that's not good.
I approach film much like I do books. Read/watch them all. Even the bad ones usually have one neat idea you never thought of. Or at least it reminds you of what not to do in a story:)
ReplyDeleteYeah, I agree we can often learn a lot from stuff we don't like. I don't usually make it through to the end on those, though. :P
DeleteOne of my favorite fantasy movies is actually "Dragonslayer," from 1981.
ReplyDeleteIt follows the usual plot of apprentice wizard needing to save the kingdom, but the girl's got gumption, and the special effects and cast are great.
I must confess, I'm rather tired of seeing covers with girls in prom dresses. Is that so wrong??
ReplyDeleteCatherine Stine’s Idea City
MC - Yes, I remember Dragonslayer. I liked it too when it came out. See, I'm not against the classic fantasy stories. I like them a lot. I like dragon slayer tales. But I am tired of fantasy dragging its wheel in the same old rut. I think storytellers can use all the classic fantasy elements and still make something fresh and new by playing around with expectations.
ReplyDeleteCatherine - Is that the latest cliche in YA? Good example of something getting over popular and becoming a turn off.
Haven't seen Dragon Slayer and most likely never will (now)! I love the idea of the blacksmith's daughter with the dragon-slaying sword :-)
ReplyDeleteI can deal with most cliched books and movies as long as there's one spark of originality in there somewhere. Sometimes they don't even find one. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteJeez, Louise, did they HAVE to name the boy "Shepherd"??? That's hysterical.
ReplyDeleteNah, you're not a snob. You like what you like, and cliches are unimaginative, and the tried and true tools of the lazy. It's easier to use the same-old-same-old than it is to come up with something fresh, but I want a movie... or a book... to catch me by surprise. One of my favorite movie dragons was Eliot, from "Pete's Dragon". The movie was only so-so, but it cracked me up when that big ol' dragon screwed up his face and said, a teeny tiny, "BOO!"
I know! I think the name was an attempt at being historically accurate, to name the guy after his profession, but it sort of backfired on my hyper-critical modern day, anti-cliche self. :P
DeleteAlso, I think as we get older and we've read a lot of books and seen a lot of movies, it's a lot harder to accept seeing the same old thing again. When I was eighteen I was much more open to a cliched story because it was still sort of new to me. Now I'm a mean old dragon who only wants fresh meat. Ha!
I love IMDB posts because it seems like people are almost always outraged about something when writing them. I can't help but find it funny when people get so mad about negative or positive reviews, that site cracks me up.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised you made it 45 minutes into this movie based on your description. Sounds like a real mess.
I've watched Dragon Slayer, Dragon Rider, and everything in between. If you can't give me something with a new twist then don't bother.ha
ReplyDeleteNetflix knows you like Facebook knows me. Or used to. Scary.
It's far better (and more fun) to play with cliches and turn them on their heads. You've gotta have at least ONE new element. I'd say you're in good company on your reaction.
ReplyDeleteLinda - Wouldn't it be nice to see her come walking out of the workshop wielding a badass sword and vowing she'll kill the dragon, and then her love interest, the herbalist's son, says he'll help her by making a potion that will summon the dragon. LOL.
ReplyDeleteCarol - I think that's why I hung in there. I can take cliche for awhile, but then something's gotta give. There's gotta be some reason for telling this story other than rehashing everything that has gone before without introducing something new.
Julie - It is fun to read the reviews. And, no, I wasn't the one to write the original snobbish review. :P
Also, the dragon was the best part of the movie. Kept me watching. I do love seeing a dragon fly around torching people. :))
Marsha - Exactly. I've seen the other dragon movies. You gotta give me something new. Invent a new curse. Or give the main character a new flaw. Something other than he's poor and orphaned and looking for love with someone out of his league. :)
Nicole - It's much more fun as a writer to make up new stuff, right? Can't avoid all cliches. And there are only so many stories out there to tell, but there's always something new you can add to spice it up.
Don't they say there are only 36 plots and that everything is just a variation on them? It's all to do with who creates the work and if they can't put a new twist on the plot, then they've failed. And that's what's happened I reckon. Oh I see you're reading "The Orphan Master" - is it good?
ReplyDeleteSusan - Right. Put a little variation on the old stories and they can become new again. Just takes a little more effort. And I'm enjoying the Orphan Master so far. That's the book that got one star on Amazon for having too high a price for the Kindle version. Talk about a bad review. :P
DeleteNext time you'll probably listen to NetFlix. At least you were able to dislike this from the comfort of your own home.
ReplyDeleteJulie
Really? Was it worse than the Syfy saturday night movie about dragons? I couldn't finish watching that one. I always find cliche boring. That's why I'm not interested in a lot of movies or 'popular' entertainment. It's boring. I started watching the Dresden Files on Netflix. That's pretty good. And I liked The Grand a lot. Since you like the historical stuff, you should check that one out if you haven't seen it yet.
ReplyDeleteJulie - Yeah, so glad I didn't spend nine bucks at the theater to watch it. Though, psychologically, I would have convinced myself it was a much better movie so I could justify having spent so much money on it. :P
ReplyDeleteMary - Missed that gem. One of the perks of not having cable. :P
And, yes! I have watched some of The Grand, with the old hooker living upstairs and the creepy brother elbowing his way into the hotel business so he can get to the brother's wife. It's kind of good. Some dastardly characters in that one. :))
I like your version better - where the woman kills the dragon. Write it!!
ReplyDeleteWell, you know how I feel about women warriors kicking butt. :))
DeleteI'm tired of the Steve Martin cliche. I don't even bother learning his character's name when he appears in a movie anymore. What's the point?
ReplyDeleteI guess I get tired of seeing the same people looking the exact same in the same story I've already seen a hundred times before...
I laughed at Catherine's comment about the girls in prom dresses because I was just shopping for books on Amazon (I mean, I was working very, very hard...) and had a screenful of YA titles featuring girls in prom dresses. Enough already.
ReplyDeleteAnd now I must check out this movie. I love bad fantasy films. They're great for drinking games.
The only cliche I never get tired of is the romantic comedy one. LOL. I don't ever want that to change. But everything else, I say yes, strive for originality!
ReplyDeleteI think we can still write stories that have been done before, but make them a little different without 'taxing the brain' of our audience/readers and without using cliches. I loved your ideas for mixing it up.
ReplyDeleteMy most hated cliche is the simple farmer/woodsy person with a secret birthright and long foretold destiny. I understand why it's popular, it just annoys me. That's why I like the anti-heroes of dark fantasy; there are no prophecies around those guys, they're just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
ReplyDeleteJamie
Callie - Ha! You kind of have a point there. The Steve Martin cliche. LOL.
ReplyDeleteM. J. - I'm going to have to go peruse the YA section and see all these dresses. What a funny trend to see on covers. And, yes, I think you should have a shot of tequila every time they hit a cliche in the movie. You'll be drunk in half an hour. :P
Lisa - Well, okay, I'm kind of with you on that. I do tend to like RomComs on occasion. :))
Lynda - Exactly. I still want my dragon slayer stories. I love classic fantasy tropes. But I think people need to think of new ways of telling them so we don't roll our eyes so far back in our heads we don't read them anymore.
Jamie - It's such a staple of fantasy, though, isn't it? I think it can be done but there has to be something original attached to it to make it interesting again. I don't think we'll ever see the end of "the chosen one" in fantasy, but maybe why he's chosen or how he's chosen can be different?
Great post. The thing about cliches is it kind of turns me off from the whole thing - because then I'm looking for other negative aspects. I think, they must know that's a cliche, couldn't they think of anything fresh? Especially if they're clearly not being ironic.
ReplyDeleteI think you're right about that. Once you notice one flaw you start noticing other stuff. Like the acting and costumes and special effects. Pretty soon none of it impresses. So true.
DeleteAwesome post! I hate cliches - it feels like I'm seeing the same film over and over again but with different actors. I also really dislike predictable and derivative films - they're exhausting to watch.
ReplyDeleteBut I *LOVE* orginality in films - a film that goes outside the box with spankin' fabulous performances, not predictable and not derivative and no cliches. I see very few of those films, like Argo is one of them. And yes, Silver Linings Playbook is not cliched - it takes a predictable story and turned it into something fresh. I could give many examples of recent films, but there's very few.
And no doubt, I love cliches for entertainment. It's something that's light-hearted and doesn't require much thinking. But otherwise, I don't prefer cliches but it's something that will always be there.
Great post, L.G. It's so easy to slip into the cliche rut. This is a good reminder of how important it is for us to search our brains for material out of the ordinary. I'm kind of over the whole vampire+wolf-boy+girl thing. It's time to move on. :)
ReplyDeleteHi LG .. I hate being told I'd like something eg by Amazon .. I rebel - and I'm sure I'd do the same with the film ... I do like things to be different, unusual ... and as Celeste says ... let me use my brains ..
ReplyDeleteCheers Hilary
Livia - I do think originality gets rewarded more than the worn out cliche, even if there is comfort in the same old story sometimes. People get excited over new ideas...if they work. I guess it's a risk to change too much.
ReplyDeleteCeleste - Oh, yeah, forgot about those guys. And yet I suppose if someone could still make it fresh, someone would still be excited about them.
Hilary - I'm not sure what algorithm they use to decide what I'll like. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they are so wrong. I love it when that happens. It's like, ha! I'm human, just try and figure me out. :P